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| Logos Posts: 238/641 |
One might wonder why the police would randomly attack people then, it's not in good form. And if targeting minorities gives them a bad name, just maybe they could try not targeting minorities or being corrupt, or other such activities that malign them?
The L.A. Times says "Police officers on six UC campuses carry Taser guns, but UCLA appears to be alone in expressly allowing officers to stun not only violent suspects but those who are passively resisting their orders." Though "Police have said it is long-standing practice for students to show their ID cards after 11 p.m.," they just don't like certain people up there, it seems. It figures, and there's no way I'm going there. If I wanted to go to a university that randomly attacks minorities in a manner that is not at all discriminating then I'd go to...nevermind. And just because the sole victim happens to be minority, I suppose that doesn't mean anything, no. They wouldn't use tasers at Berkley though, since the students there would sue for massive lawsuits. |
| Rogue Posts: 2506/11918 |
It was my original wording that probably threw you and I'm sorry for that.
While I hate that a lot of things are blamed on the media, the whole emphasis on the student's race came from many news outlets. There might be something to it in that one might ask why they decided to randomly check him and not someone else. But we don't know that they didn't check any whites, blacks, what have you, so the point is moot. |
| GuardianOni Posts: 370/472 |
First, sorry Rouge. Been in a running heated arugment for the last two days (the context of which I'll not divuldge) And When I read your post it sounded like you were makeing some sort of attack. Sorry. But I agree with you.
And second, Logos... wtf? Your last post made no sense. Where are you pulling terrorist from? And what makes it a hate crime? |
| Logos Posts: 235/641 |
If were really a terrorist, there's a good chance that adding electricity might just cause massive damage. Nope, I think this was just a hate crime. |
| Rogue Posts: 2505/11918 |
My last post was more of a general statement which was also meant to include the public's opinion of cops and much of the media's portrayal of them. My fault.
In the end I was pretty much agreeing with you in a round about sort of way. |
| GuardianOni Posts: 369/472 |
Originally posted by Rogue Rouge, I have not once said that what they did was right. Nor, even in my post looking at the other side of the argument, excused them. (But I did say I was loosing sympathy) In fact I said in my first post that I wanted them to stop as well. There are torture methods similar to what happened. And lets face it, they were inducing pain to get him to comply with their demands. And if this is considered 'typical' police behavior, either we need to look at our view of cops and where it comes from, or we need to stop those who are making it typical. All I was saying in my last post is that most people seem ready to jump on the "bad cop" band wagon. Hell I still don't know for sure what actually happened. So I honestly can't take either side. (He should have done what they said, and they didn't need to tazer him as many times as they did.) And I wasn't trying to defend the cops (or any cop) by saying they were persecuted, or put down so much. What I was saying was that it is wrong to prejudge the situation only on a small number of facts. And everyone seems ready to prejudge the cops in the wrong. But again, I know as much as anyone else on this board. And that is still not the whole story. So if it comes out that the student was provoked into escalating the confrontation, and the cops were in the wrong, I'll be smiling at the thought of them getting legal action taken against them. And I agree with you, wide spread apathy, and large accusations of racism, and hate is killing us as a whole, and we all lose. And a side note, there is a special place in hell for rapist, and I would love to see them get their as fast as possible. And people who think that rape is funny should be beaten. *Edit: I was in the prosses of responding when you put that edit up. That is sick. I couldn't watch the whole thing, it's just wrong. I am disgusted. I don't know what else to say. |
| Rogue Posts: 2504/11918 |
I think it's a shame that these cops are in some sense being excused because our society believes cops are bad already.
Where the hell did this come from? A few bad cops here and there who made a few bad judgments. So does that make the whole lot bad? Of course not. So by saying, "Well, everyone thinks cops are bad anyway, so what these guys did doesn't matter." Yes, it does. Because someone thinks you're a monster, doesn't mean you should prove them right. I'm tired of these lowered expectations that we have for our leaders and people of authority. I'm not speaking ill of police, hell I know many of them who take every measure they can to still be civilized in the face of adversity and with difficult people by building rapports with them and taking care of tough situations with a cool head about them. These people are heroes. Granted this student made a VERY stupid decision by making a scene and screaming his head off, but to dismiss the Tazer'ing because it's so-called typical behavior is scary. It's these forms of apathy that truly frighten me. Reminds me of this girl railing about being raped on another forum and warning people to take precautions and people responded back with posts like, "Well at least you got sex out of it" and "Haha. Buttsecks" (though it turned out the initial post wasn't completely honest, the reactions were still sickening). I honestly don't see either side in the right here and if we just continue this idea that this world is all about hate, racism, and police brutality, then we're all losing. EDIT: And just to add an even sicker note to this... someone just posted this on LiveJournal a couple moments ago: |
| GuardianOni Posts: 368/472 |
Well if she just left, and didn't make a scene, why would she be needed to be escorted out?
If he did what was told to him, and didn't make a scene, I think he could have left under his own power. Hell, when I saw this video on the news yesterday, they conveniently didn't play the part where he was shouting at the police (no visual on the action). And then they did a little bit painting the history of one of the officers in a rather bad light. But what do you expect from a society that teaches cops are bad? |
| Elara Posts: 3851/9734 |
I don't know... depends on if they grabbed anyone else without an ID that they escorted out. According to the report of the girlfriend she just left, no mention of being escorted out.
But still, more than once was wrong. |
| Lord Vulkas Mormonus Posts: 1526/4540 |
*finishes watching the video*
Okay, now that I actually saw what I happened, I find myself not feeling any sympathy for him. They came to the computer lab, asked him to leave, one of them touched him as they are supposed to do whent hey escort someone out, and he started fighting. If he had actually complied, allowed them to do that, and not had a huge fit, then he would have been fine. I heard no malice in the antagonist's voices, and as such, I think that they are not nearly the antagonist that we think they are. As a side note, we see plenty of news stories about police hurting other people, but really, how many stories have you heard abotu a cop doing something heroic? I know it happens, my grandfather worked for the police. So why doesn't the news report it? I think we all know the answer. |
| GuardianOni Posts: 366/472 |
So basically he fought with the police...
My sympathy for him is waning. He fought them, and they brought a taser to a wrestling match. It still sucks that it happened to him, but if that report is true then there is nothing really more to be said. |
| Rogue Posts: 2492/11918 |
Originally posted by GuardianOni From what's been gathered, the student police were conducting a random check of IDs in the computer lab. Our man in the video happened to not have his. The police ask him to leave and upon walking him out, one of the officers supposedly grabbed the guy's arm. The guy then started shouting at the cop to not touch him, nothing gives him that right and so on. Now, I'm not sure in which order the rest happened be it that the guy suddenly went limp or that the cops grabbed him to make him leave, but a struggle ensued and someone pulled out their Tazer and went to work. And the rest is up for dispute. |
| GuardianOni Posts: 362/472 |
My question is why he got zapped in the first place. Not shown on the vid, and if it was there on the audio I can’t tell. But cops don't use any sort of force, unless it is provoked. ((Esp if there are ppl around))
As for the guy, well ... I'm throwing my lot in with Avatar. He should have done what they said the first time. Hell even after the first zap (and between the rest) there was enough time for him to regain motor control, and do what he was being told. If the man with the gun says jump, you f***ing jump. As for racism, I could find no evidence that the cops were being raciest. Was it because he was Mid-Eastern? Is that the reason the 'R' word is being thrown around? Well if that is the case that means that every time a white cop goes to arrest a member of a minority race they are being raciest, and cant do it because it's wrong. And our society doesn’t promote racism. If you want proof, listen to the news, listen to any one discussing a race problem, and they are talking about how to stop the hate. Hell read our little community here. We are our society. In fact our society promotes that cops are the bad guys. That they all are crooked, and abuse their power. And are not to be trusted. Now back to the incident shown here. Maybe it was uncalled for, maybe it is the act of some school yard bullies with badges. But maybe he gave them a reason. All we are going off of is (while it is of good quality, I wonder what brand he used.) a cell phone audio/video. And one more thing... Just because I'm not jumping on the "Lets get those F***ING cops" band wagon doesn’t mean I condone their actions, or approve of multiple uses of the tazer. In fact I did feel bad for him, and I also wanted to yell "stop". Getting the s*** shocked out of you hurts. But I am willing to give the cops the benefit of the doubt that there was a legit reason behind the first tazering. After that, he should have done what he was told. *edit, typo attack |
| Pockets Posts: 677/838 |
Avatar lets stun you multiple times and watch you get up and leave.
That was some of the most fucked up shit I have ever seen. I seriously hope those ass wipe mother fuckers are fired and face legal punishment for their actions. |
| Elara Posts: 3849/9734 |
I'm sure the campus police in questioned are being fired, otherwise the school would most likely be sued (for that is the way nowadays). And if a room full of people are telling you to stop doing something that common sense should tell you is wrong then you have serious issues anyway. They should all be tasered five times and see how well they can move.
Yeah, the guy was dumb for yelling about the Patriot Act, but from what I've read he was walking when they tasered him the first time. Maybe I got that wrong. |
| Logos Posts: 223/641 |
Originally posted by avatar of law I'm pretty sure the screams when being electrocuted might just imply pain, but you can argue with that too, I'm sure. You're not considering the circumstances, insisting it's so easy to be reasonable when put under unreasonable conditions. It's simply a case of power abuse on the side of the aggressors. Another thing to ask, why on earth are they attacking anyone in the first place? |
| Rogue Posts: 2490/11918 |
Obviously the guy has an agenda. Why else would some of the first things he said be "Here's your Patriot act"? If I were being Taser'd, I know that would have been among the last things I'd have screamed.
But I'm not fighting that. As cops (granted they're student police and not LAPD as I stated in the initial post), we expect them to act more civilized than the people they are dealing with and act with common sense. If a kid is riding down the street with no helmet on and doesn't stop when police try to pull him over, they don't just pull out their guns and start trying to take him down (I'm sure this has never happened, it's just an example). Taser'ing him 5 times? Now really. Since it seemed there were many of them on hand, they really should have just picked him up, since he was playing "Dead Weight," and taken him outside. It's like a parent taking the bait and arguing with the kid for hours until the kid gets his way. Now it's plastered all over the news and I'm sure someone's losing his job over it (honestly I don't know if anyone has as of yet. They probably might just be suspended, if that). Were it just as simple as dragging him, carrying him, giving him the bum's rush, it wouldn't have been so captivating that people would have pulled out their camera phones for it. But as you said, you aren't arguing this. Really the people in the room were demanding badge numbers. In the past asking for badge numbers amid such situations has been known to be a very bad idea. Especially when the cops know the asking is meant to intimidate them to stop as though the person asking is shouting, "I can have your badge for this!" Based on the arguing in the hall near the end of the video, I'm not sure if the badge numbers were really released or not. EDIT: Had to change the last statement in the first paragraph. It originally read that I would have screamed about the Patriot Act, but I meant it to say that I would NOT, if I were Taser'd. Correction made. |
| avatar of law Posts: 430/486 |
Originally posted by Elara he went limp, and fell to the ground and refused to leave that's childish, and a sign of a drama queen. which was why they zapped him in the first place. to show him they mean business.
shouting he would leave, but continued to stay limp on the ground doesnt show any indication that he would leave. and so what if his muscles were stiff, he should've said so, instead of playing out the cherade, and acting tough. all that matters is, many choices were made. most were bad. he could've just complied and left, instead of acting like a baby. they zapped him to show they mean business. he could've been a man about it, and left. instead, he went on shouting stuff to get attention, and played it out even more. what they did, with the multiple zapping was wrong indeed. i'm not fighting that. they should've just dragged him out kicking and screaming. but they were stupid. that's a fact. if a room full of people told you to kill someone, i'd doubt you'd do it. and if they complied with the people, their authority would be lost, and they would look stupid and will be taunted at even moreso. |
| Elara Posts: 3848/9734 |
I don't think he was being a drama queen when he told them to let him go after grabbing him, and I don't think he was being a drama queen when he was saying he would leave.
What is worst of all was that there was a room full of people telling them to stop and they just ignored them. |
| Banned Posts: 2761/-3459 |
Vulkar... The fact that any die at all is wrong... Tasers aren't supposed to kill people. T_T They don't even provide any other purpose than to harm folks... I mean at least automobiles (which kill way more than tasers) provide transportation and greenhouse gasses. 
That was a sad sad video... T_T I'm still ashamed to be human. Somebody post something happy, allready. T_T |
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