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| Leon D. Sagara Posts: 548/859 |
I know Vulkar said that all opinions had been expressed and I don't endorse bumping threads at all, But I do have something to say to this.
As far as the war, I don't care if we fight or not it doesn't concern me. But SHOULD a draft ensue, and I get drafted I will hold my head high and begin my vigors new style of life. I am arrogant and egotistical, but I value nothing more then my pride. Should the pathetic excuse of a government that we have wish for my Pride, then I ll show it to them, with no fear and eyes wide open. Just wanted to share my thoughts guys. |
| Elara Posts: 4097/9734 |
I don't know if they still use it, but I know that the mandatory two years of service was used in Italy and probably other European countries as well; but only for men. I think that the only way to get out of it was to go into the priesthood or something. |
| Amudaus Posts: 59/178 |
i agre after your two years you suld be free to go. the reason i voice manditory two yeas is to make evryone the same, as right now we all have the same choice wether we wish to inlist or not. if we have a draft why shuld a handfull of people be picked to fight and the rest get off free. granted there would need to be leway for people whith disabilitys, mental conditions, or religus belifes and after your two years you can reinlist if you chose or you can simpoly move on whith your life. |
| Elara Posts: 4088/9734 |
Hmn, the idea of a mandatory two years is different; though at the same time it would only be a good solution if after those two years are up you are totally free to go. As it stands right now, if you have served at all they can recall you to active duty at any time. In a time of war, like we have now, I don't think that they would let anyone go after their two years were up. |
| Amudaus Posts: 58/178 |
apologies,
dint bump intentionaly. was just voicing my mined. i dont care if you lock it. my point was that evryone shuld be treated as equils. personaly i dont want a draft (i shuter at the thoght). im just saying it shuld be arcosed the bord kined of thing. |
| Katana Posts: 1903/3649 |
((Edit: Vulkar ninja posted me. :p I really didn't have anything relevant to say, so...))
Please watch the bumps...again, I don't really care about bumps, but I've noticed some UBER old threads have been bumped, and that's a bit of a problem I guess, so just throwing that out there. >.o In any case, I really haven't read the other posts, but Ima give an opinion anyway. I can't help but disagree with you there Amundaus. There are many reason why some people really can't go into the military. Some people wouldn't be accepted because of certain illnesses, and others truly aren't cut out for it. What good are you when you really can't do anything? |
| Lord Vulkas Mormonus Posts: 1724/4540 |
A bit of a large bump there Amudaus, and seeing as how most things have been said that could be said, I'm going to have to lock this if no further points are raised. I won't lock it yet, but I discourage people from posting in this unless they raise another point of view, rather than just agreeing with what's been said. |
| Amudaus Posts: 57/178 |
personal belife. 1. evrybody gets manditory 2 years right out of high school. OR 2. all volenteare make it leavel acrose the playing feeled. i belive that evryone shuld get the same treatment. non of this hand of fait draft sistem bull shit. make evryone go, or give them a choive whith what they want to do whith thre own life. |
| True Flight Posts: 2341/5243 |
Why does everyone believe that there is a lack of people in the army? There really isn't. I should know. There are over 50,000 soldiers in BCT. But here's how it goes. When you get down to the nitty gritty. How many are weeded out? Not that much. That brings your 50,000 down to about 45,000. See? And many MANY of them are not in the shape to train. Bringing our Brigade down to 43,000. There's how many people graduate from a cycle. AIT is another question though. |
| Banned Posts: 2866/-3459 |
Originally posted by LogosOriginally posted by Elara That's nice. Go back to the subject. I don't like the idea of a draft, but only because I'd be too frightened to be of any use to the country. T_T I'm terrible with firearm, anyway.  The idea of being forced to fight in a war that I wouldn't fully understand is lame. I'd just flee to Canada. |
| Logos Posts: 283/641 |
Originally posted by Elara I was just pointing out the irony of his statement, but pointing out fallacies is usually part of debate. The fallacy being your opponent's case, and pointing out being why yours is preferable. |
| Elara Posts: 3921/9734 |
Can we stop arguing about fallacies please? This is getting horribly off-topic and I feel like I'm back in my logic class. |
| Logos Posts: 279/641 |
Originally posted by Vulkar Ad hominem is any attack that is against the person, hence "ad hominem." I just made one example, others might be calling someone a hypocrite, or in any way trying to relate the person to what they're saying. Appeal to emotion, or in this case fear, is an attempt to manipulate someone's thought based on their emotions. To provide a completely not PM example: "Stop postign or i bann you." It's not hard to debate morality, but this isn't the place. To say that "everyone else" knows something is an example of the ad populum fallacy, as well as saying what "most americans" think, which is also unsupported by evidence. I think this guy has a point, and it's just going over people's heads. The point is that today, people are all to ready to start a war, as long as they don't have to fight it. It's all very well for a bunch of wealthy bureaucrats--it's pretty hard to get up there without money--to start a war they really don't have to pay the consequences, and can only gain from war. Now if their children and grandchildren had to go to war, would they be as likely to start a war with such levity? Would someone be so quick to say "I don't care" or some other indifferent remark if it was their life at stake? The point is that people start to think of other people as a means, as cannonfodder, not as people. |
| Fooly Cooly Kirby Posts: 112/112 |
its simple if the draft is reinstated, we will be pulled out of iraq because now people you actually care about are going to be forced to go.
There not going to reinstate the draft though, if anyone keeps up with the senate and congress you know the idea of it being reinstated is impossible just for the iraqi war. Its really just one politicians bs plan to try and stop something thats been going on for too long. Bush is really the only one left supporting our occupation so its a matter of time till he crumbles and we pull out. Now a draft being reinstated in a war that actually threatens america or has drawn america into it, such as WW2 is understandable. Because if your not going to even stand up to fight against invading nations or threatening destruction then you shouldnt be living here. WW2 should have been the last offical draft, Vietnam on the other hand along with korea are more along of the lines of the situation were in now, and a draft shouldnt be instated. |
| Lord Vulkas Mormonus Posts: 1593/4540 |
No, that's just one ad hominem attack. Abusive to be more precise. I, like you and everyone else, know what these things are.
Anyone, college isn't the main subject, so I'll move on. I find that from a moral prespective it is bad. However, many people have different ideas about morals, so its hard to debate whether or not it is moral to force someone to join the army. But from a political prespective, whoever succeeds in getting the bill passed, is going to have destroyed his carreer. Most americans don't want the draft reinstated. |
| Logos Posts: 276/641 |
Originally posted by Vulkar College is over $10000 a year without room and board, and that's the public university system. And I didn't in fact read your post, but ad hominem means against the person, it's basically attacking someone instead of the subject at hand. It's commonly known as "you're stupid," and other such remarks. |
| Lord Vulkas Mormonus Posts: 1590/4540 |
I really hate to put an end to that train of thought, but getting into ollege isn't that expensive.
Take my brother. He got a summer job, worked every day for several hours, and paid for college for the next semester, while adding funding to domething more expensive which I don't feel like going into. So, if someone can get two college terms in one summer, or perhaps being more fair just one college term in a summer, they can go to college. Just work for a few years, you'll have funding, and go get your major. But that's not really the topic at hand, I honestly think that the benefits in the military make it a perfectly decent job to go into, if you really want to. the reason a lot of people chose other carreer options is not because they're rich with more opportunities, it's so that they don't get shot in their carreer. Yes, I did make an ad hominem mistake Logos, appeal to fear if I'm not mistaken. |
| Elara Posts: 3895/9734 |
Cutting the military's budget would also help... but we can only hope that will happen. I'd personally like to not have to pay $1000 just to be a part-time student at my school. But I digress. |
| Logos Posts: 271/641 |
Originally posted by Elara It's very simple, add 100 billion to the education budget. And make some progressive taxes, and raise the upper margins on taxes. Voila, now I can go to college. And possible get taught by a teacher. |
| Elara Posts: 3892/9734 |
That is a good point, sad as it is. Too bad we cannot have the draft only effect the wealthy... but then it would still be against their will, so there goes that idea.
It is a shame that we cannot get Congress to look at more important issues, like bringing more jobs back to America so that the lower classes are not forced to enlist in the military just to have a job; or how to fund our colleges in a more efficient so those same people won't have to enlist just for the grants to go to school. |
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